In the last episode of this season-long exploration of the songs on Wilco's "Ode to Joy," Mary and Meredith discuss "An Empty Corner," its final track.
(Theme music fades in: guitar strumming, slide guitar glides in. Music fades out as the co-hosts Mary MacLane Mellas and Meredith Hobbs Coons begin to speak.)
Meredith: Hey hey.
Mary: Hey, Meredith.
Meredith: Hi, Mary.
Mary: This is crazy, but this is the last episode of the first season
Meredith: -what!-
Mary: -of Wilco Will Love You.
Meredith: It is.
Mary: That's crazy.
Meredith: It is.
Mary: It's been a wild ride.
Meredith: It has!
Mary: Good, though.
Meredith: Really fun.
Mary: This is first time podcasting for both of us, right?
Meredith: It is.
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: I've been... a guest on a podcast... one time. And that was a delight. Mr. Chris Lambert's former podcast "Are We Okay?," before he blew up with "Your Own Backyard."
Mary: That's amazing.
Meredith: Good guy.
Mary: So... we are here to discuss the last song on "Ode to Joy."
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: "An Empty Corner."
Meredith: That's right.
Mary: It's bittersweet.
Meredith: It is.
Mary: This song is kind of bittersweet, too.
Meredith: It is!
Mary: There are some things-
Meredith: -yes-
Mary: -that we will talk about after we listen.
Meredith: Right.
Mary: Hey, did we do our intro? We didn't do our intro. It's the last episode.
Meredith: (Laughs).
Mary: Ha ha!
Meredith: We were just too excited.
Mary: We're too excited.
Meredith: So, this is... Wilco Will Love You. And it is- you probably figured out by now, (laughs) since you're listening to it and not watching it-
Mary: -(laughs) yep-
Meredith: -a podcast. And it's a podcast by fans-
Mary: -about-
Meredith: -the music! And... influence-
Mary: -of Wilco!
Meredith: Let's listen to the song.
Mary: "An Empty Corner."
Music fades in. The bass drums feels extra present. Jeff Tweedy sleepily sings, "What else can go wrong?/ Now that I'm not longed for/ Wild life seems wrong/ Won't care/ Won't stare." Music fades out.
Mary: Ah.
Meredith: Yeah.
Mary: It's a sleepy song.
Meredith: (Laughing) it is! I was just thinking that. It's a sleepy... very soporific vocal.
Mary: I really knew I had to look at the lyrics on this one, because they're very... fluid words.
Meredith: Right. The way that he delivers the lyrics, it kind of sounds like... you know, talking on the phone late at night, kind of giving... an account of what's happening back at home-
Mary: -hmm, mhmm-
Meredith: -kind of thing.
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: Especially the part where he's like "power lines are down" or something like that.
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: I guess it's "where the power lines are down." But the way he sings it, it's kind of like, he was just, like, saying-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: -what's going on.
Mary: The whole chorus the (reads lyrics) "Now that I'm not longed for/ Wild life seems wrong." I had no idea what that said.
Meredith: (Laughs)
Mary: Until I read these lyrics.
Meredith: (Laughing) yeah. Who do you think this is about? Because I have a take.
Mary: Do you?
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: It kind of feels like it's a dream? Because then he talks about in the very beginning, in an empty corner of a dream, my sleep could not complete. So it's like an unfinished dream?
Meredith: Right.
Mary: There's the (laughs) like, comparison of lines of cocaine and power lines-
Meredith: -right-
Mary: -that I'm intrigued by. But yeah, please tell me what you think.
Meredith: I think that... this is a song for... one or both of his kids.
Mary: Hmm.
Meredith: And maybe... I have that bias because my (laughs) dad wrote songs when... both my brother and I left home. He wrote one first when I moved on-
Meredith: -and went to college, and he wrote one when my brother did the same. And... it sort of has... that air to it of sort of an empty nester kind of... thinking about the things that they might be getting into or doing and, like, if he's being too needy.
Mary: -huh-
Mary: Hmm.
Meredith: (Reads lyrics) "Won't care/ Won't stare/ You've got family out there," like just kind of, remember-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: -like, if someone's talking about Chicago or something, wherever his kids are, they might be like, "Oh, yeah, I've got family out there." You know.
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: Like, that's kind of what you say, when you're talking to people in a new space that don't really know you, and-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: -you're talking about your family. It's this disconnected kind of thing from you, kind of a throwaway thing that you say almost like-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: "-oh yeah, I'm familiar with (laughs) this location you speak of."
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: Something like that. And... I don't know, maybe... the cocaine on the coffee machine would be- it could be him, like, you know, "oh, and I left alone," or you know...
Mary: Hmm.
Meredith: I don't think that was ever an issue for him per se. Or it could be, like, kind of a stress dream about like, "what are they gonna do... when they're (laughs) away from me and I don't know what they're doing?"
Mary: The line lines of cocaine on a copy machine just reminded me of like Mad Men and like-
Meredith: - (laughing) oh-
Mary: -that whole era.
Meredith: (Laughs)
Mary: I mean, not that they had copy machines, though.
Meredith: Yeah.
Mary: It's a really interesting image for a Wilco song.
Meredith: Yeah.
Mary: I don't know if any of them have ever worked in an office.
Meredith: I don't think that he did. Yeah, (reads lyrics) "There are sirens in the birds," I like that line. Just kind of this... ominous... thing. You're hearing the birds calling and it's like... kind of grating in that way, it feels like-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: -too much. Mhmm.
Mary: (Reads lyrics) "The silver black boot/ That cracked my front tooth.
Meredith: Again, I feel like that could be the kind of memory that he's thinking, like, this is an- what young adulthood and recklessness can look like. This is something that could be going on out there in the world, and... I'm getting used to it.
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: Like "I had experiences like that, and maybe you're having experiences like that, and I have no control."
Mary: Yeah. Interesting, too, that there's different chorus lyrics.
Meredith: Oh, yeah. He switches 'em.
Mary: Any other thoughts?
Meredith: I had sort of a... misremembered line! From another work that I thought related to this, that's fun to share anyway. When I read "An empty corner," the first thing I thought about was A Christmas Carol. And I was thinking that the ghost of Christmas present- and- when he's kind of warning... Scrooge, I thought that he said-
Meredith: -"I saw an empty corner." But what he said, I looked it up actually, it's "I see a vacant seat in the poor chimney corner." So, it was in there.
Mary: -oh!-
Meredith: Well, it could have been in one of the film versions or something.
Meredith: I probably just misremembered it. But it's kind of-
Mary: -but it relates.
Meredith: It does kind- yeah, I think it does. It sort of ties in with, I don't know, holidays... family...
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: Yeah. That was just interesting that that... is what popped into my head when I saw the title again.
Mary: Yeah, I liked the imagery and... kind of idea of like, (reads lyrics) "a dream/ My sleep could not complete." Like, when you wake up from a dream, kind of like before you want to...
Meredith: Oh, yeah.
Mary: And you're like, "I really want to know... what was gonna happen."
Meredith: Mm. Or a nightmare.
Mary: It's this really kind of frustrating thing. Yeah. And it's really frustrating, and you kind of can't shake it for a while, usually.
Meredith: Right.
Mary: I feel like those are the dreams I remember, are the ones that aren't completed.
Meredith: Yeah.
Mary: I think it's one way in which this first first is just like, "Oh, yeah," the imagery of like, lines of cocaine on a coffee machine-
Meredith: -right-
Mary: And then you just know it was in-
Mary: -it was there, what was gonna happen?
Mary: It was in a dream, and then it was like... gone,
Meredith: Right. I don't really have that much more.
Mary: I know. The song is kind of short and sweet.
Meredith: Yeah.
Mary: Not as long as "We Were Lucky" (laughs).
Meredith: (Laughs) taking it back to "We Were Lucky."
Mary: (Sighs) oh, boy.
Meredith: Oh, "We Were Lucky."
Mary: Yes.
Meredith: Yeah, I like this one. It feels like a good... palate cleanser from... the... just... ecstatic joy of... the previous one. The... really-
Meredith: -yeah, yeah-
Meredith: -and the one before, the really amplified... sort of feelings from "Love Is Everywhere (Beware)" and then "Hold Me Anyway."
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: This one is kind of grounding. It's kind of... like, sometimes love is just kind of waiting and... you know-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: -being there? Even though... you don't really feel like you are, or like they are-
Mary: -yeah-
Meredith: -and you're just kind of THERE.
Mary: I think that's a perfect way to describe it.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: Kind of the- the in between times, which is most of the time.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: And... yeah, so I think that's a- it kind of leaves you... in a neutral zone.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: Which isn't a bad thing at all.
Meredith: Or aching a little bit, if you think about having... that experience of- or... anticipating that experience- of that separation between parent and child- the willful, you know, willing separation of parent and child, where it's just time... to move on and do the next thing.
Mary: Yeah. Well, this was another one that we might just want more thoughts on.
Meredith: Yeah.
Mary: See if someone else had a connection.
Meredith: Right. Until next time. There will be more- more to do with interviews, we're hoping.
Mary: The format, each season, I think, could change. Just, we're getting our feet wet with... the whole podcasting thing.
Meredith: It's just establishing ourselves.
Mary: Going through a- a relevant piece of work from this band. But we hope to talk a lot more about Wilco and... more topical themes would be great for the future. And-
Meredith:-right.
Mary: If you have suggestions for us, let us know we're trying to think of some kind of cool things we can do with our guests, like maybe, uh, some games to kind of lighten the- lighten it up a little bit-
Meredith: -maybe little ideas.
Mary: Little ideas that just will make it interesting for everyone. And-
Meredith: -mhmm-
Mary: -but we're really looking forward to... continuing this. And yeah, look out for season two.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: You know, keep connected. You can email us for updates, or you can follow us on Instagram.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: Those are the best ways,
Meredith: @wwlypodcast on Instagram, and... I'm doing it this time (laughs).
Mary: You are!
Meredith: Does that make you uncomfortable? (Laughs).
Mary: No! I think it's great. Go for it.
Meredith: And wwlypodcast@gmail.com
Mary: That's how to reach us. We hope you enjoyed this foray into "Ode to Joy."
Meredith: Nowhere NEAR as much as I enjoyed it.
Mary: No.
Mary: I'm just gonna say that.
Mary: I mean, just talking things out was SO helpful in understanding this album, and it was so great. We hope it inspires you guys to have more of a kind of depth of... understanding and willing- and willingness to go deeper-
Meredith: -mhmm-
Mary: -with this work.
Meredith: Or just take a stab! Have your own little take. Let it be wrong. Who cares?
Mary: Who cares?
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: We're all in this together.
Meredith: Take. A. Stab. At it.
Mary: Yep.
Meredith: At interpretations
Mary: Yeah.
Meredith: Not literal stabbing. I feel like that goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway. Just to cover myself.
Mary: Yes.
Meredith: You know, you just never know.
Mary: (Laughs) alright! Well, almost sad to say we're ready to sign off on our final episode.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: Final episode of season one, but we will be back.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: Soon enough.
Meredith: It's true.
Mary: Remember-
Meredith: -Wilco... Will Love You.
Mary: Yes, they will! They do! Excited for more to come from Wilco. I'm sure we have much more to come and many more albums to discuss and-
Meredith: -mhmm. You know, hey, it's alright. Everything in it's time.
Mary: Yes. Yes.
Meredith: Mhmm.
Mary: Until next time.
Meredith: Goodbye!
Mary: Goodbye!
Meredith: See you later.
(Outro: Wilco Will Love You is co-hosted by Mary MacLane and me, Meredith Coons. It is edited by Greta Stromquist and recorded at Portola Studios. Theme music by Adam Nash. You can rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, or wherever you prefer to listen, so that you don't miss an episode.)